tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post6301549610248797091..comments2023-12-18T03:49:48.800-05:00Comments on quakerthink: I'm a Quaker. I Own a Gunkevin robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07336902422644197456noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-44654010660042694832020-02-14T12:29:52.023-05:002020-02-14T12:29:52.023-05:00The having of a weapon is itself an affirmation of...The having of a weapon is itself an affirmation of the inner light, in that God informs the wicked and lustful with cowardice, and the having makes them reluctant to do wrongfully, and thus tends to peace. The having affirms the submission also to God's will, and that man has at all times the Choice and Ability to do wrongly, but chooses, as Quakers ought, to do good. Sin exists only when the opportunity for sin exists, does it not? Guns, weapons, create options in doing, it is man's duty to struggle with such options, and to decide according to the inner light.<br /><br />One Quaker Hicksite fellow, a certain Stubbs, shot a hold-up man dead. He was, I am told, a "gun-totin' Quaker". He had a pay-roll in his saddle-bags, in gold. Should he have let 2,000 men be left un-paid. Ought he to have let the robber go on to rob another? As it was, Stubbs followed his own inner light, and had to live on with the ghosts. He died in 1929 of heart failure. That's a real story, Friend.<br /><br />Timshel, thou mayest prevail over evil. Or, if you like, ethics is circumstantial.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-22798810806394820822018-11-15T00:02:09.406-05:002018-11-15T00:02:09.406-05:00I am a relatively new Friend in Australia. All i c...I am a relatively new Friend in Australia. All i can say on this topic is that since the Port Arthur massacre, when a conservative prime minister acted to control guns, particularly assault rifles and large magazine handguns, we have not has a gun massacre in Australia. Prior to that we had one about every three or so years.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16819327544550712136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-4145826875481069962017-07-25T07:34:34.809-04:002017-07-25T07:34:34.809-04:00I am not a Quaker. My ancestors in Ireland were an...I am not a Quaker. My ancestors in Ireland were and immigrated to Pennsylvania in the early 1700's. In doing genealogy research on my family I learned they were Quakers and decided to do some research on what Quakers believe. I found this blog in my research and I found some of the responses concerning. In my research I learned that Quakers take great pride in practicing tolerance, in following their individual light and encouraging others to do the same. It seems to me that some of the responses to this blog are posted by people who do not practice Quaker teachings. Saying someone isn't a Quaker simply because they don't bieve what you believe doesn't sound like he is encouraging others to follow their own light. Calling Quakers with beliefs different from yours confused doesn't sound like someone practicing tolerance either. It seems the Quaker faith is just as full of egocentrics as any other faith.Pamela Haymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07853120666976194874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-46425855569660013712016-10-15T03:16:21.431-04:002016-10-15T03:16:21.431-04:00I truly love your blog. I am a Single mom, Quaker ...I truly love your blog. I am a Single mom, Quaker and Gun Owner. This is what I love about Quakers. We should love and except everyone for the way they are. <br />If anyone broke into my house I will not be standing alone or running out the door. I will stand up and protect what is mine. Just like my family did when they started the Quakers in Pennsylvania back in 1600's and of course in England as well. <br />So thank you for this blog. Truly!! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09525051304202629245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-32344551396831564052016-10-15T03:00:25.030-04:002016-10-15T03:00:25.030-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09525051304202629245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-46306774044773050232016-06-13T23:40:36.931-04:002016-06-13T23:40:36.931-04:00Sounds like there's some very confused gun own...Sounds like there's some very confused gun owners calling themselves Quakers in the USA..<br />Amy and Avahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12290697930611664164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-29196014917393581662015-10-03T21:47:30.269-04:002015-10-03T21:47:30.269-04:00I think that owning a gun with the remote possibil...I think that owning a gun with the remote possibility even that it would be used on a human is the antithesis of being a Quaker.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-25660478832036069462015-04-19T11:46:05.149-04:002015-04-19T11:46:05.149-04:00Very good way of putting it!
In my opinion as a Q...Very good way of putting it!<br /><br />In my opinion as a Quaker and also a gun owner, I see a fundamental difference between Violence and Self Defense.<br /><br />Violence is the deliberate intent to Harm or Kill whereas Self Defense is the intent to STOP harm or killing from happening to yourself or another.<br /><br />-Rescuing a baby from a burning building is defense.<br />-Talking someone out of suicide is defense.<br />-Joint-locking someone who is trying to punch you is defense.<br />-Shooting someone to stop them from stabbing a victim is defense. <br /><br />People who confuse Defense and Violence have a lot of trouble with the idea of somebody "needing a gun", because guns represent violence, period, in their minds.<br /><br />Defense is the counter to violence. Defense is not always about physical force (i.e. conflict resolution and negotiation, but can include force if necessary. <br /><br />Most systems of morality condemn violence, as in the Peace Testimony, but allow for self defense. Defense is anti-violence IMO.NBodhihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298909065414074341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-32712601457531689292014-11-09T16:49:35.218-05:002014-11-09T16:49:35.218-05:00Thank you for sharing this and to the commenters w...Thank you for sharing this and to the commenters who quoted other Quakers. I am new to Quaker gatherings. I have been attending for about a year now and the only thing I really understood for a while was the freedom to follow one's light and conscience. <br /><br />It is only recently that I've come to know about the testimonies and what they mean to some. So, I came home today from meeting and specifically Googled "are Quakers allowed to have guns?". I personally believe in the right to gun ownership and having read legal opinions written closer to the time of the framers of the Constitution, I am convinced that the 2nd Amendment was put in place to guarantee a right that was already understood to exist. I really enjoy the meetings and was concerned that this issue might be a deal breaker for me. <br /><br />The point of a gun for protection, to me, isn't necessarily to kill. It's also the quickest most generally indefensible mechanism of disabling a violent advance that I know of. Shooting to kill is not the only option. If someone's intent is to do me violence, I hardly see what they or anyone else would learn by my allowing them to do so. Having grown up in a family with a grandfather who was a career criminal,I learned far too much about just how little they care about anyone who happens to be perceived as even potentially being between them and what they want, even if it's not legally or morally theirs to have. <br /><br />Aside from that, I am a meat eater and personally believe in certain "circles of life". I've never really understood the idea of wearing a synthetic to keep from shooting an animal to eat and wear when the factory making the synthetic pollutes the environment of the animal and harms and kills it anyway. I would never hunt for sport but I will for food and clothing. It seems a far less destructive process to me than those of the modern world we live in. I used to spend a lot of time primitive camping/living and it taught me a lot about living in symbiosis with my planet and it's inhabitants from flora to fauna. <br /><br />Anyway, thanks again for the article and the re-assurance that this issue doesn't have to be a deal breaker for me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-81925587247631886302014-07-24T15:41:50.702-04:002014-07-24T15:41:50.702-04:00Ken,
It is good that you travelled, felt safe an...Ken, <br /><br />It is good that you travelled, felt safe and emerged unharmed from the middle east. If Daniel wants to protect his family that is his right. There is a difference between supporting war where innocents are killed over land, oil, and ideology and defending oneself and family against a sociopathic home invader bent on killing your family. The Swiss who are neutral, peaceful, non-violent, and are very heavily armed - yet they do not go to war. You are naive to believe you can hold vigils, have peach marches through war torn countries and that will remove evil from the hearts of some men. You live you life as you wish and don't judge others and we won't judge you. I have never seen doctrine that states being a Quaker requires you to lay your family down before a violent intruder and do nothing while he has his way with them. I consider myself a pacifist but I also own a gun and know how to use it. I will not be performing a peace vigil if a violent person breaks into my house and tries to harm my family! Benjamin Yodernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-8049184879815689512014-06-02T15:12:24.027-04:002014-06-02T15:12:24.027-04:00Is this a joke??? I'm a Quaker who walked from...Is this a joke??? I'm a Quaker who walked from Portugal to Istanbul, then hitchhiked through Turkey, then walked from Port Said to Cairo, Egypt, often sleeping in a tent by the road, committed to non-violence in a violent country, without a gun, without a weapon, all in the name of peace, and I struggled with being a Quaker because I got angry once in a while, as I am now, but you're a Quaker who's okay with owning a handgun in case of... of what? someone else with a handgun? A rabid weasel? There's the intent to kill, owning one of those, yeah? What do you want to kill, Quaker? You're one more reason I think I'll quit being a Quaker.Kenneth Schroederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12200902890049634707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-55778587979604690862013-03-28T07:54:37.992-04:002013-03-28T07:54:37.992-04:00As someone who is currently considering becoming a...As someone who is currently considering becoming a Friend. I cannot give a peace testimony, only a war testimony.<br /><br />Whenever someone kills another, it takes a part of your humanity away. It took a part of mine, even under "honorable" conditions. It is something I must live with, forever.<br /><br />In that scenario it was kill or be killed. I would give anything to have never been there to know how it feels today.<br /><br />Danny from TacomaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-76345922289481229612012-12-29T23:45:41.631-05:002012-12-29T23:45:41.631-05:00Are you really going to use .45 hollow points on a...Are you really going to use .45 hollow points on a raccoon? WalterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-23699202389519240512009-07-29T23:58:12.612-04:002009-07-29T23:58:12.612-04:00I have tried to explain this to a European... who ...I have tried to explain this to a European... who is shocked that so many Americas own guns... and that rural states tend to oppose gun control. Seems its hard to get the concept that rural people live with dangerous wildlife. When asked if I plan to buy a gun... I point out, I live in a city, and was never trained to use one safely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4362492544828158978.post-76843018100613378632008-12-22T18:08:00.000-05:002008-12-22T18:08:00.000-05:00Thank you for sharing your convictions on this mat...Thank you for sharing your convictions on this matter.<BR/><BR/>I profess myself to be Quaker, but as much as I value peace as an ideal, I also affirm that true peace is impossible in the absence of the freedom and the dignity of the individual. And if owning firearms is the only way to insure that our freedom and dignity are preserved, then so be it.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate how Mary Lou Leavitt once approached reconciling the Peace Testimony with gun ownership by Friends: "To accept as a certainty the spiritual conviction which underlies the peace testimony is not to be certain of the outcome. We cannot guarantee that we will never kill, far less that we will never do violence to those with whom we share the earth. Nor can we, by refusing to do harm and seeking always for a creative response in conflict ensure our own personal safety or the triumph of the causes we support. We can only choose to live day by day as if it were possible always to defend what we value and to resolve conflict without deliberate harm—in such a way that if damage does occur, healing is possible."<BR/><BR/>Violence must always be considered <B>the</B> last resort, but that does not mean that we should not be adequately prepared if the most greivous evil were to be force upon us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com